Due chiacchiere con… Intervista a Paolo Tucci (Cien y Pico)

Quando nel novembre del 2018 frequentai a Roma il corso per diventare sommelier del sake della Sake Sommelier Association Italia, furono diverse le persone che si interscambiarono come relatori nelle tre intense giornate di studi. Tuttavia ci fu un intervento che mi colpì più di tutti, che in relazione agli altri è stato il più breve ma, sicuramente, uno dei più complessi ed affascinanti che abbia mai avuto il piacere di ascoltare in tema gastronomico.

A salire in cattedra, con tanto di kimono bianco, fu Paolo Tucci, che nel corso per diventare sommelier del sake si prese a carico la lezione riguardante i lieviti. Non si tratta di un argomento che chiunque potrebbe insegnare: si parla di organismi unicellulari, di fermentazione, di sentori, di enzimi, di reazioni chimiche. Eppure Paolo, con il suo perenne sorriso e la sua incredibile preparazione, riuscì ad esporre come se fosse una favola per bambini un argomento estremamente complesso. Oltre che la sua ferrata conoscenza, ciò che mi lasciò davvero di sasso fu la sua passione che traspariva da ogni parola che pronunciava. 

Al tempo Paolo lavorava come Sales Manager presso la Wagyu Company, un progetto di importazione diretta del Wagyu direttamente dal Giappone creato da un team Italo Giapponese. Da allora cercai di seguire le “gesta” di Paolo perché una persona così, in un campo come quello enogastronomico, vale la pena tenere d’occhio. È un bel mix: consulente, educatore ed imprenditore nel settore del Food & Beverage, ma se dovessimo sintetizzarlo con una parola non potremmo che scegliere “gastronomo”, con esperienze di lavoro in Giappone, Australia e Stati Uniti. 

Uno dei suoi progetti più affascinanti nasce nel 2019, quando inizia la collaborazione con il ristorante Acquerello, una stella Michelin in quel di Fagnano Olona (Lombardia). Paolo infatti è co-ideatore e responsabile del progetto Atelier Acquerello, volto a “diffondere la filosofia di cucina “Kaiseki Italiano” creata da chef Salmoiraghi e chef Cheolhyeok tramite partnership con imprenditori del settore ristorativo, istituzioni e scuole di cucina”. P.S.: per chi non conosce il termine, consiglio caldamente di approfondire il tema del Kaiseki, che possiamo definire come una forma d’alta cucina nipponica in cui si struttura un menù che va dalle 6 alle 15 pietanze, basato sulla freschezza e la qualità degli ingredienti, così come la loro stagionalità. A proposito dello chef Salmoiraghi, per chi non lo conoscesse – non è uno che si presta molto ai riflettori dei mass media – è uno dei migliori allievi del compianto maestro Gualtiero Marchesi e riunisce, nel suo ristorante in provincia di Varese 4 cucine distinte: Italia, Francia, Giappone e Cina. Insomma, se si passa in zona, fare lì un salto credo che ne valga davvero la pena.

Ma torniamo all’argomento dell’articolo. Anzi: cominciamo a scoprire meglio chi è Paolo. Pertanto direi di rompere gli indugi e di cominciare! 

Io: “Paolo, partiamo dai tuoi inizi tra i banchi universitari. Quale indirizzo hai scelto e quale materia credi ti abbia dato maggiori spunti per il tuo attuale profilo di competenze?”

Paolo: “Inizialmente ho studiato a Milano Economia e Commercio (Management) alla Bocconi, ma in realtà ho creato il mio profilo gastronomico andando all’Università di Scienze Gastronomiche di Pollenzo (a Bra), l’università creata da Carlo Petrini di Slow Food. Probabilmente ciò che mi favorito di più è stato l’approccio olistico dell’università, perché in quel tipo di ambiente si tratta il vino, il cibo o un’altra particolare tematica da tutti gli aspetti, quindi il lato economico, quello del marketing, quello filosofico, quello chimico, ma anche il punto di vista dell’agricoltura e la storia del cibo e del vino. Questo è un approccio molto utile che, unito ad una chiara visione economica delle cose, è la base con cui mi approccio al mondo del cibo e del vino”. 

I: “Passiamo ad uno dei principali capitoli della tua vita professionale. Qualche anno fa poteva essere una parola conosciuta solo dagli addetti ai lavori, ma ormai è diffusa in ogni dove: wagyu. Parliamo quindi della Wagyu Company e cosa ha rappresentato per te. Dove ti ha portato? In cosa ti ha arricchito in termini di esperienze e know-how?”

P: “Guarda, Wagyu Company è arrivata come proposta in seguito ad uno stage curriculare, dopo la mia prima visita in Giappone dove mi ero recato per collaborare con Slow Food Nippon. Un aspetto fondamentale di quella esperienza è il fatto che mi abbia permesso di collaborare alla mappatura delle eccellenza gastronomiche e del beverage (Nihonshu in particolare) della Prefettura di Ishikawa (石川県). È stata un’esperienza che mi ha decisamente arricchito perché mi ha permesso di confrontare le mie esperienze internazionali con la realtà del mercato italiano, quindi dover vedere e confrontarmi col mercato italiano è stato molto interessante perché c’è una mentalità e un approccio al cibo che cambia da paese a paese. Più che esperienze, dico sempre “persone”: sono state le persone e soprattutto i clienti ad arricchirmi”. 

I: “Parlaci ora di “Bodega Cien y Pico”, la cantina spagnola per la quale sei recentemente diventato Sales Manager – se sono ben informato. Come si passa da un importatore di pregiato manzo giapponese ad un’azienda produttrice di vini spagnoli? Che vini produce e cosa ti ha affascinato fin da subito di questo progetto?

P: “In realtà sono Sales Manager di Cien y Pico ma anche co-fondatore insieme ai miei fratelli e a soci spagnoli e australiani. Durante il primo anno di università abbiamo iniziato questo progetto di recupero perché si occupa di vinificare in un’area in cui sono presenti tantissimi ettari di Vitis Vinifera (la specie che origina la vite per la produzione del vino, n.d.a.) pre-fillossera*. Date le basse rese tipiche della D.O. Manchuela (parliamo di una delle ultime Denominación de Origen nate in Spagna), è un progetto che si pone come obiettivo quello di salvare le viti dall’espianto, in quanto una resa molto bassa non giustifica la vinificazione, a meno che non si cerchi di creare vini di alto livello. Noi abbiamo aperto questa cantina, il cui nome significa “cento e un po’”, con lo scopo di far conoscere ed esportare questo vino pregiato in tutto il mondo. Come vitigni utilizziamo la Garnacha Tintorera (conosciuta anche come Alicante Bouschet) e Bobal, entrambe varietà locali storicamente non vinificate particolarmente bene nella zona. Dall’altra parte però, il plus è che essendo i vigneti situati tra i 400 e gli 800 metri sopra il livello del mare (la zona è a Mahora, vicino ad Albacete e situato tra Madrid e Alicante, n.d.a.) è presente una grande escursione termica, passando dalle mattine gelide ai 40° a mezzogiorno, sfavorendo anche la diffusione della fillossera. C’è una concentrazione di frutto pazzesca, data anche dal fatto che le precipitazioni sono molto rare ed il clima decisamente secco”. 

*N.B. per chi non conoscesse il termine, la fillossera è un insetto di origine americana che arrivò in Europa alla fine dell’800, diffondendosi rapidamente in tutti i vigneti europei e provocando irreparabili alle viti nostrane

I: “‘People, not ingredients’. Ovvero “persone, non ingredienti”. Un motto bellissimo che poteva nascere solo da uno che, come te, fa questo lavoro non solo per portare a casa la pagnotta ma anche e soprattutto per passione. Cosa puoi raccontarci di più su questo tema?”

P: “Quando si lavora nel Food & Beverage, il focus deve essere sempre la persona, che sia cliente, collega, allevatore, ristoratore. Quando questo avviene si riesce a portare in tavola o nel bicchiere qualcosa di straordinario”.

I: “Domanda a bruciapelo: qual è la tua cucina preferita? O quantomeno quella che secondo te ha le maggiori potenzialità in termini di crescita e notorietà nel futuro?”

P: “Qui mi cogli in difficoltà, non riesco a citarne solamene una. Probabilmente ti risponderei con “asiatica” perchè non saprei scegliere fra giapponese, sudcoreana, thailandese, vietnamita o una delle tante cucine cinesi. La cosa più bella è trovare un cuoco occidentale che col proprio bagaglio culturale sa anche padroneggiare stile asiatico. O viceversa: trovare un cuoco o una cuoca asiatico/a che abbiano competenze nella manipolazione di materie prime occidentali. Quello sì sarebbe un gran bel mix. A livello di potenzialità per il futuro, una cucina che è da anni nei radar di tutti è il Perù, ma attenzione all’Australia. Mi piacerebbe vedere un arricchimento e una espansione delle possibilità della cucina italiana perché l’Italia non è ancora venuta del tutto fuori per quello che può dare sull’altissima gamma delle sue potenzialità. C’è tanto lavoro da fare per il futuro sulla percezione e la comunicazione della cucina italiana all’estero”.

.

I: “Estate 2020, l’estate delle mascherine, del distanziamento sociale, del turismo concentrato maggiormente sul nostro [splendido] territorio nazionale. Tu una parte l’hai spesa in Molise, una regione ahimè spesso oggetto di scherni e poca considerazione, ma che invece racchiude un grande patrimonio ambientale, culturale e gastronomico. Raccontaci come è andata e cosa hai vissuto in quei giorni”.

P: “Questa estate ho deciso di andare in Molise perché da tempo avevo la percezione che fosse una delle gemme nascoste della gastronomia italiana. Ho trovato una grande abbondanza, sia in termini di capitale umano che luoghi ed ingredienti molto genuini. Non è sicuramente una regione abituata a raccontarsi e questo ha fatto sì che non ci siano tanti artigiani e prodotti pronti per una commercializzazione su base nazionale. Ad esempio in Italia non abbiamo la la percezione del tartufo, caciocavallo o della soppressata del Molise come prodotti di assoluta eccellenza. Le parole chiave invece sono ambiente INCONTAMINATO e INGREDIENTI GUSTOSI e genuini.  La cucina locale è semplice, antica e mai banale,  fatta per essere condivisa in casa o ai tavoli di una osteria. Non è ancora una cucina che sa fare l’occhiolino a chi passa, allo straniero, ha poco glamour ma tantissima sostanza. Sicuramente quest’anno si è visto un aumento enorme dei flussi, e quindi la speranza è che ci sia un aumento della specializzazione sia dell’operatore turistico che accoglie sia delle esperienze food, trend già attivo. Come non citare la straordinaria visita al caseificio Di Nucci (caciocavalli fenomenali) – o le esperienze didattiche alle fonderie di campane di Agnone, le gite sulle montagne intorno ad Altilia – che è la loro Pompei: tutti elementi che rappresenteranno sicuramente un punto di svolta nella comunicazione gastronomica ed esperienzale della regione. Va sottolineata anche la piantumazione molto estesa che vede come protagonista il vitigno regionale, la Tintilia. E spero che sia i volumi che l’aumento della qualità di vinificazione portino ad un incremento dell’export e del loro successo commerciale in Italia e nel mondo”.

I: “Restiamo in territorio Covid-19. Sono molto curioso di sentire il tuo punto di vista sull’impatto che ha avuto e che soprattutto avrà nel medio-lungo termine sulla ristorazione, sia nostrana che internazionale. In più, come credi che impatterà sul comparto enogastronomico in generale?”

P: “L’impatto sarà quello di accelerare un cambiamento che era già in atto. Questo è l’impatto, né più né meno. La sofferenza e il displacement causato sono dati dal fatto che bisognerà ri-calibrare tante competenze. Un esempio pratico: la figura del cuoco che sa cucinare e basta si sta rivelando insufficiente per rispondere alle nuove sfide di digitalizzazione poste dal mercato.  In futuro andranno sviluppate contemporaneamente partnership e competenze a tutto tondo, perché nell’estrema specializzazione alla quale andiamo incontro non si può pretendere che un cuoco possa fare tutto da solo (social media marketing, perfetta organizzazione commerciale tramite delivery, eccetera). Fuori dalla cucine, una grande quantità di produttori di vini e di beni di consumo in generale tenteranno di raggiungere direttamente il consumatore finale e quindi lì ci sarà una sovrabbondanza di offerte e una riorganizzazione su grandi piattaforme. Ancora oggi un Amazon del cibo non esiste, un luogo centralizzato dove fare spesa a km 0, che sia il punto di riferimento in ogni angolo del Paese. Sono sicuro che questa diventerà sempre più un tema”. 

I: “Chiudiamo questa intervista con un ultimo spunto. Il mondo enogastronomico è sempre più in fase di rilancio, grazie a strumenti come Instagram, i social in generale ed i blog, ma anche con programmi televisivi come Masterchef e 4 Ristoranti per citarne solo due. Che consigli daresti ad una ragazza o ad un ragazzo che vogliono addentrarsi nel mondo professionale del Food & Beverage, magari proprio come gastronomi?”

P: “Un consiglio che darei è quello di frequentare un corso universitario di scienze gastronomiche ben strutturato.  Che sia una triennale, una biennale o un master, si parte da lì. Consiglio di non fermarsi lì poiché al gastronomo è richiesta una visione a 360°; deve essere una persona estremamente concreta, che parte dalla gastronomia per poi approfondire e cercare di diventare uno specialista in quel settore. Che sia cuoco, mastro birrario, scrittore, giornalista, consulente, designer: si può fare tutto in ambito Food & Beverage quando si parte da una laurea in gastronomia, più difficile è il percorso inverso. Si può partire da un background diverso come il mio (che sia economia, letteratura, psicologia o altro) e approfondendo con lo studio della gastronomia si può andare ad arricchire la propria visione della materia di cui si è già padrone. La cosa più importante è il toccare con mano. Viaggiare, degustare, visitare il produttore per poterlo capire, comprendere i problemi del ristoratore e così via, sono tutti passaggi fondamentali. Senza questo diventa più difficile fare bene il proprio lavoro”.

Insomma, c’è da rimboccarsi le maniche, da studiare e approfondire parecchio, ma soprattutto c’è da appassionarsi e da innamorarsi di chi c’è dietro al prodotto, prima che al prodotto stesso. Grazie Paolo per questi preziosi spunti. Kanpai! O forse, dato il tuo progetto iberico, è meglio dire: saludos

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